COPE2.

You hear the name all over. You hear it on radio, the television and see him while playing your Xbox.

COPE2, the name is associated with royalty in the Graff game. A true King whose been holding it down for several decades.

COPE2 finds himself in an interesting position. While many writers have failed to reap financial rewards from Graffiti, COPE2 finds himself receiving the accolades and financial success that isn’t associated with the careers of writers. He has made a living from Graff, and it is his profession.

I caught up with the King and exchanged words with him. He wasn’t reserved, but chose to discuss everything from beef, projects, accusations that he is a snitch, the haters, the current game, fucking people up, the cops, personal relationships, and life.

COPE2 put it down, and it goes like this…

CLARKE: So how did you come up with the name Cope2?
COPE2: Cope2 man, Bronx graffiti legend. I came up with that name back in 79, 80. My boy use to write “Kope” with a “K”. I forget what I was writing back then …..I use to write “BIN” and then I handed “BIN3″ to a friend of mine. Then I started writing “Cope” with a “C”. I got the 2 from when I idolized BAN2, he use to be king of the insides. He had a lot of shit on the lines. I use to watch a lot of names like 2FAMOUS, BAN2 PHASE2…I got inspired by them and since then I was COPE2.

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CLARKE: When did you start writing?

COPE2: 78, 79 my cousin use to right. He was a local kid from the neighborhood. I picked it up from him and him taking me on the subways and then watching the trains go by…trains by COMET and BLADE, whole cars and whole cars by Lee…

CLARKE: So you actually saw all of this?

Cope2: Yeah, that really blew me away. I said “I want to get big like this!”

CLARKE: What writers had the biggest impact on you? When was the first time you saw a piece done on a whole car?

COPE2: I remember my mom, I used to go with her to this Spanish church on 167, this was back in 78, 79. We use to chill on the corner while my grandmother was talking to her friends. I would see the 2s and 5s role by. I remember seeing a lot of BLADE stuff…COMET and BLADE. Really the BLADE cars. I noticed that BLADE had so many whole cars with different colors and styles. That really blew my head. Also seeing the LEE cars and the DONDI, MITCH 77. I really love MITCH77, he really influenced me. He had dope lettering and his color schemes where awesome. Writers like MARK198, FRITOS, TRACY168 those where the writers who really inspired me. There was a writer, RIP7 he was down with the original Rock Steady Crew; he kind of taught me hand styles.

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CLARKE: So you did have a teacher? You were taught at some point?

Cope2: Definitely I wanted to know more about it. Meeting writers like RIP7 kind of …he taught me a lot in tagging style.

CLARKE: Talk about the bench at 149th Street and the importance of that location for writer.

COPE2: It was a place a place where you met writers and a place where you hooked up with writers to rack your paint. Or just take photos of the cars, or sign black books and just hang out. Everyone use to cut school and go there. I remember I would go there with TRAP, back in 80, I met him on the 4 train, TRAP was like “Come with me to the bench!” I was a little afraid to go there, I was mad small. I seen so many writers chillin it was amazing.

CLARKE: Would you classify yourself as a toy during that period of time?

COPE2: Of course everyone starts or begins as a toy. There is nothing wrong with it. It is what you do with it. You remain a toy or you become a King. From a King, become a Legend, like me. I was a toy. I became a King, and from a King I became a Legend. If you want to stay a Toy, that is on you. Some writers stay toys, they never get better, but the bench was awesome, that is how I met writers like CAZ 2. Another writer who influenced me was REX 167. I started meeting a lot of old school writers there….SCHEME, DES… I was small but they were giving me love.

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CLARKE: So you never had any trouble at the bench? I heard that a lot of writers had beef up there.

COPE2: Sure…I remember when AGENT tried to rob me, but BAN2 put a stop to that. He was SCHEME’s partner, he was wild….That was 81, 82 I was small. People didn’t fuck with me much, because I was young, but I was coming up fast. I was doing mad pieces and throw ups on the 2s, 4s, and 5s so the older cats were giving me respect. They were like, “You Cope2? Word shorty?”

CLARKE: What was your life like at home while this was happening?

COPE2: My moms was pretty down to earth, my brothers were young and my father was always working. I was the type of kid who always liked to be outside.

CLARKE:Do you feel that Graf gave you direction and kept you out of trouble?

COPE2: Definitely! When I got older I got into selling drugs and robbing people, so I got arrested a few times. I stuck with the Graff…I got into trouble with that too, but it was better than the drugs. When I was selling drugs I started taking them too.

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CLARKE: You make an appearance in the video game “Getting Up”, do you think it is good for Graff?

COPE2: Anything is good for Graff. Especially in New York. New York is kind of dead right now and you have a bunch of little kinds running their mouths on websites who don’t know anything about graffiti or anything about any righter in general. Writers today, they hear one thing and go with it. You have to know someone before you can crucify them, but the game was cool. I got the opportunity to be in the game and the money was right. I feel like some the guys in the crew of Legends don’t deserve the title. I won’t say any names. There are so many other writers that should have become legends [on the game] like BLADE, PHASE 2…there are a lot of writers that that should have been legends in the game. He picks 2 or 3 niggas that really didn’t do anything graffiti at all. Fuck it, that is their choice and they are in the game. But I am happy I am in the game. I get emails from kids all over the world. I really want my own game. I am writing a book right now. I have been through crazy shit. I have a book out now called “Cope2 True Legend”. It will be available in the states now, but over 5000 copies have been sold in Europe. You can get it from [the web] now. The game is pretty dope. I want to do another one, my manager is talking to some people. My manager is cool and he has been getting me more than enough work. Sometimes it gets too overwhelming.

CLARKE: Cope when I look on some websites and see your name, people call you a snitch, why?

COPE2: I laugh at it. That happened when my video came out 5 years ago, “Cope2 King Destroyer”. It was a documentary that sold worldwide. I got arrested for it. The police wanted some of my boys who were doing trains. I wouldn’t give them up. Some people know the truth behind it; my lawyer is the same as PJ and SEEN. The vandal squad wanted me to give up some writers, and I won’t say there names. They got pissed off when they arrested me. I had a good lawyer so I got off. You have to get caught in the act and he knows everyone in the system.

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So, me not getting caught, the vandal squad playing a game where they catch writers and tell them that “Cope is a snitch, and Cope works with us.” Which is Bullshit! There is not one writer I know in my whole life that can say I snitched on. I’ve seen niggas get shot and stabbed in front of me, sliced in the face, I’ve done evil shit and I would not waste over 20 years to snitch on a writer. In graffiti you got these kids, or even your own friends, niggas you have known for years, that hate on you. When a writer see you blowing up, or coming out with a video or with a book, you are traveling the world and you live off of something you love to do, they hate on that shit. So they get on the internet and spread rumors. After I got arrested, the cops raided my crib and took all of my shit. If I was a snitch why would they do that? That whole snitch shit is funny. I laugh at it. I am too real for it. Why waste 20 years, a career? I know the tricks that the cops play. The cops can do it with these young kids. Cops grab you and tell you that your boy snitched you out. Cops can manipulate. Their thing is to divide and conquer. Writers don’t see that. To me, I think it is more than that. I am too popular and to famous in this game. Writers are so jealous that they want to bring my name down and bring the value of Cope2 down. If they could say I was a homo or that I have aids they would do it, but there is no signs of that so they go with the snitch thing.

That is the only way to try to destroy me. A lot of these kids wished they lived the live I live. The snitching boils down to hate. It is a part of life. I keep doing me and kill them with silence. I will do me with product, sneakers, books and traveling the world.

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These kids who call me snitch and hate, they are the ones that buy my book and video.

They are the ones that want to shake my hands at art shows.

CLARKE: What is the definition of a “TOY”?

COPE2: A toy is not bad. It is a kid who just started and is not up that much

CLARKE: ALL CITY?

COPE2: Like MIN said in style wars, you have to hit all of the lines. Some writers who just worked one line. Min rocked shit! …2s, 5s, 1s, 4s, 5s, 6s, A, B, C… You have to hit everything. IZ also! He was the ultimate bomber. My biggest idol in bombing was CAP. He taught me how to bomb really….he gave me my throw up and I took it from there…HARD!

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CLARKE: Can anyone go ALL CITY NOW?

COPE2: Yeah, but it is played. You get in a car; do a throw up in Brooklyn and then get in a car and do a throw up in Manhattan and you’re All City? It is not like EASY and JOZ. They are he real all city kings. Ultimate street kings. Some righters like SKUF,NAISHA. I really idolize him as the up and coming. He bombs All City and he puts a lot of work in. He does a lot! There are not too many. JEE he does All City. There are not too many who are All City. Not too many writers from Brooklyn and Queens come to the Bronx. The only writer who has was SKUF. We go out there. I did all city in 93 with PER. Not too many did it like EASY and JOZ. They were doing it in 88, 89.

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CLARKE: How did the piece for TIME happen?

COPE2: I got an email from a lady saying they offered it to Zephyr and some other writers, but they turned it down. How do you turn down twenty five grand to do a piece on a vinyl? Some writers are too arrogant, it is ridiculous! Hey I did it! I got bigger projects coming up. People will say I’m being a sell out, but I paid my dues. I destroyed subways, roofs, highways, streets, I beat niggas down, I can rack. I don’t need to keep doing that. I’m thirty seven and having another kid on the way.

I’m like an animal, I can’t be around writers. Some writers are ridiculous. I’m quick to knock their teeth out the back of their heads. Then you got Toys from Queens and even from the Bronx and they want to go over me. They ain’t no one and they are toys! There are writers who have been out there ten years and haven’t done anything. My boy SAP has been out for two years and he is killing the Bronx. Anyone in my crew destroys shit. He reps my crew “Gods of Destruction” and “Killer Dawgs”.

These are niggas from the Bronx who are not to be fucked with. Niggas can’t fuck with the crew.

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CLARKE: What years would you consider to be your prime, in Graf? What years were the best?

COPE2: 82-84…

CLARKE: Okay, describe the scene, the sneakers, the clothing and music during those years.

COPE2: Those were the days you could rack some Pumas, Adidas and put oh your Lees and BVDs. I would break-dance. I would go to the Funhouse, Roxy. I would take a tab of mescaline and go to the Roxy. One time back in 82, Rock Steady came to the block on Dekalb Avenue and Moshulu parkway. I battled Rock Steady. RIP7 bought Rock Steady down. We battled and they burned us but it was a dope battle. They just took off and became famous.

Those were the hip hop days…kids playing stickball, skelzies, kids with the boom box, going to the jams in the park. You could listen to any Afrika Bambatta track or Soul Sonic Force, that shit would hype you up and you could go paint a train afterwards. It was amazing…

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CLARKE: Are you Mets or Yankees?

COPE2: I like the Yankees better, but baseball sucks. I like boxing. I followed Tyson since 1985. When I was little, I wanted to become a boxer, but I had a child at a young age. My favorite has always been Tyson. In his prime, no one could stand in the ring with him. This dude was ridiculous. He should have beat Holyfield, he was not the same when he came out of prison.

That is how I fight. I don’t wait; I just come at you and try to rip your head off. If you beat me you beat me. I really watch UFC. There are a couple of guys [Graffiti righters] that I want to fight and I want to break there arms.

CLARKE: Why?

COPE2: They run their mouths, they go over me and they are toys to me. They know who they are. The will know when I run into them. There are a couple of guys who want to shake my hand and suck my dick, but when they walk away, a month later I look on SASTER and see their tag over my throw up. When I see them, I am going all out on them. They have to be put into their place. A lot of these kids act tough but when you step to them they call the cops. That is what I am afraid of. A lot of these righters are punks and can’t fight. A lot of them are pussies. They want to got over me and write stuff on SASTER. Just a couple of them, I want to get them into some nice submissions and break their fucking arms and they will have something to remember for the rest of their lives! But I have too much success now over trying to beat someone down. This guy got me arrested for threatening them over the phone. They got me arrested; now I have a case. I have a rap sheet for assault and it is not from graffiti.

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CLARKE: What is the difference between a King and a Legend?

COPE2: A King is a writer that is top of it all. He has locked down everything. Trains, walls, rooftops, most tags, pieces, throwups….a Legend is someone that has been doing it for years and has nothing to prove. I can name a couple of legends….MIN 1 is a true legend. But I got that from Bruce Lee. Someone who can has nothing to prove and has proven themselves….a lot of writers….BLADE, SEEN, TKID, PJ there are a few that are Legends. I paid my dues and I’m still rocking.

CLARKE: You mentioned SKUF as one of they guys that is currently doing his thing, is there anyone else?

COPE2: No one has impressed me…[COPE pauses]….JA …I love JA; he goes over everyone and does not give a fuck. A lot of people don’t like him, but yo…I had my beefs with him and it is squashed and it is over. As for Etch bombing SNATCH, SMASH, BET and JA. My boy SAP killing shit in the Bronx, SAZE, QUEST, JEZ, OVIE and SINCE recking shit in the Bronx and all boroughs, the two infamous thugs. YMI is keeping it alive doing productions, and TATS CRU has alwaysbeen around doing there thing. And also female writers…like TOOFLY and other females….. it is not like back in the days when you had righters from all over. Not anyone exciting. I think I need to come back, but I can’t afford it. Then the vandal squad comes to my house. I like bombing ghettos around the world like Paris, London, Germany, Holland…I like bombing all over the world.

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CLARKE: Outside of the U.S. What spots are holding it down for Graf?

COPE2: Italy is dope. France, Germany….Europe is really taking it! As long as they respect us it is cool!

CLARKE: Have you ever gone over anyone?

COPE2: I’ve had beef with writers like SEEN AND PJ, righters like that. They helped me get to where I am today. Back in 85 I was king of the 2s and 5s, and PJ was released from prison. He started killing the 2s and 5s with SEEN and they started going over me and it became a war. We had a big war.

I had a war with CAP and MPC when I left the crew. I had beef with writers like DURO, MIN, GHOST, GATO, VIN1, REAS. When me and PJ became cool I got into more beef. All of those wars with big writers, old school writers makes me who I am, so I take my hat off to them and respect them.

CLARKE: Okay, so doesn’t it make sense for new guys to get at you now?

COPE2: Nah, cuz they are doing it the wrong way. Going over me for no reason. I am not going over them. Like when I was coming up, PJ was going over me, I wasn’t coming after him. I got my fame doing me. …but then again, I guess I understand them cuz on the 4s in 83, 84, I went over SHARP and SPIN, I did not want anyone on that line, anyone on the 4s the 2s, 5s, then I went to the 1 line, but a lot of writers on that line did not like me like the FC CREW, IBM, TC5, FLIGHT, they were going over my shit, then SEEN and PJ started killing it.

CLARKE:What was your routine when writing?

COPE2: I would go to the yard. I would hide my paint. I would do a dope color burner then smash the rest of the yard with throwups.

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CLARKE: You had to have seen some crazy shit? What is the craziest thing you have seen while writing?

COPE2: Back in 82, me POST, REX167 in Bedford park …it was more like 10 writers…It was snowing. A train rolled in really quiet. It was four cars of a 4 line. It was crazy. The doors opened and like twenty cops came out. I was high and I ran and got away, a fat Philippine kid who wrote LEE3 [OTB] got caught. I got away, that was crazy. Most crazy shit involved raid stories with cops.

CLARKE: The “Clean Train Campaign”. What was that period of time like for you?

[When I mentioned this, Cope got a real uneasy look]

COPE2: It was terrible. In 85, the 4 [train] was the first to get clean trains. By 88 that was it. The last trains that were the last were the Js, Ms and the CCs. I killed those with my boys SAYS and MED. We killed them. Those were the last trains. When the clean trains came, a lot of writers quit. Old school writers quit, the only guys that kept righting was the RIS CREW; they were still doing clean trains. I was amazed. These kids was bugging. They inspired me to hit clean trains. I knew they were doing it to keep the movement alive. Transit was winning because they were taking cars off. You hit a train and then a day later it was gone. All you had then was your picture. Then the Europeans came and fucking up the trains! Top to bottoms! Fucking up the trains!

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Like NEON and MILK, and CHINZ, ZEBSTER, they were fucking up the trains. Europeans are still killing it big time!

CLARKE: Have you been invited to do work in Europe?

COPE2: Yeah people pay to see me paint in Europe, it is amazing. That is my job. I live off of Graffiti.

CLARKE: If you could do a throw up on any landmark, what would it be?

COPE2: I would do a whole car and put it in the transit museum and have it sit there. A COPE top to bottom whole car. Or maybe a window down burner with MITCH77 and TKID, CAGE2, us four and let it sit there and be a part of history…That is what’s wack. You go to the museum and you don’t see it. It is a part of New York history.

CLARKE: Do you feel that New York City movement is dead right now?

COPE2: Yeah, the cops, the vandal squad, they make niggas not even want to be bothered. They catch writers, start shit, go online and start shit, they ruin everything. It is a headache. As you got older, you don’t…..I will be 40 soon. I can’t do that. You get older and have to do what is best for you, pay your bills and eat.

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CLARKE: Okay…fast forward 10 years from now, what will you be doing?

COPE2: I don’t know…I don’t know why I’m still here. It is weird. I might not be alive. Life is short; I take it day by day. I take it easy. I have been through a lot. I have been through a lot of drama…my mothers passing last year. I see shit in general. A lot of my friends have been murdered, you reminisce on the times you had with them and now they are not here anymore. It is fucked up they way they were killed. People in jail for shit they did not do. I have been in prison and there are dudes in there who deserve a second chance and it is wack. It is terrible…that is what stops me from beating some of these people, loosing my freedom. I have been in there and it is not a good place. No matter how tough you are….having your freedom taken away…I have friends who do 5 years and go right back. I have friends who are immune to that shit.

Hey …people hate me, call me a snitch, but hey I’m the one with the big bank account, I will make sure that twenty and thirty years from now people know who COPE2 is. Call me a snitch or hater, but your grand kids will be talking about COPE2. Niggas, who really know me, know I’m one of the realest mother fuckers in this Graff game. We’re all men and we have to respect each other!

Some people just don’t know how to show respect. There is so much hate out there. I have friends, like when my book came out; they flipped on me and started hating. When my book came out they were not my friends. I never did that. You got guys who shake your hand and are the ones that hate. It is fucked up. I learned not to fuck with to many people. I keep it tight with my brothers and the people in my crew and that is it. Like TKID who is the realest dude in the world.

CLARKE: Any advice for anyone who is new to Graff?

COPE2: KD, knowledge dominates. If you get caught by the cops, you have the right to remain silent. That is why the cops hate me! I say nothing. If you don’t get caught…that is why I have a lawyer. Be real and do what is best for you. If you are doing canvases and your boy does trains and he thinks it is wack, don’t worry about it, do what is best for you. I do everything… walls, sneakers, canvases.

For all of the haters…you will keep seeing me. I will still be COPE2. I will leave behind the legacy and people will remember me. I have to represent, BRT, TNB, GNR, VGL, Gods of Destruction, Killer Dawgs, FC, TMB, BTC, KAS, you know…every crew that is a crew, OTB.

My girl Indie and everyone who has love for me and for everyone that does not… fuck you!

For all of you Toys, that want to be on the computer, it is sad. When you go on SASTER you see my name KING COPE 2, these kids hide behind fake names. They are pussies. There is this kid from Brooklyn who was trying to disrespect me on a chat line, when I seem him I’m going to beat him down senseless. This kid knows who he is, he just got out of jail, he is from Greenpoint. He started getting stupid will me online, and then he reported me to AOL and got my account suspended. He knows who he is. That is some pussy shit. This kid claims he is thugged out.

Anyone who keeps going over me…I’m coming to your house with my boyz, and we will beat your ass down. When I run into you are getting setted on. And I don’t fight fair, if I’m with 4 or 5 niggas we are all fucking you up, you wanna be thugged out and go over me and be tough on the internet than that is it. These kids deserve it. They write shit that is uncalled for. I don’t really have time, most will call the cops.

I will keep being me and there is more to come.
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